World History And Anthropology: Why are modern North Africans not black (in general) Part 2 Reader Response The Ancient Greeks were black, world history and anthropology ~~~~

Wednesday, 19 February 2014

Why are modern North Africans not black (in general) Part 2 Reader Response



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lets genetics talk.
Arabs have mostly J1 , turks mostly J2.
Genetic history of the Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M267
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2#Africa





North Africans mostly have the arabid J1 haplogroup so you can say bye to your dumb theory of them being mostly turks since turks mostly carry the near eastern J2.
Firstly, you didn't even read your own source properly, either that or you have an extreme lack of Ottoman history. For one, many of the soldiers and peoples in the ottoman turks came from the Caucasuses and western half of turkey, the eastern ottomans who are genetically closer to europeans were mainly fighting the europeans genetically speaking where j1 occurs at 99% in the kibachi

J1 in the caucaus
Avars 59.0%
Dargins 70.0%
Kubachi 99.0%
Kaitak 85.0%
Lezghins 44.4%
from your own source, j1 occurs highest in turkic states of the caucaus and not in arabia.


Lol, I knew you were going to bring that up. All of J originates in Eastern anatolia or Turkey. Also notice it says west asia as the origin of j1 and not middle east.... hmmm... why? hence trying to split J1 and J2 as representing different races that are not related to turkey are folly.

Your theory ignores the fact that Turkey is not a monolith and is comprised of several competing populations of indigenous black turks (e1b1b)~10%; white central asian turks (r1) and eastern anatolian j (J1 AND J2). The main reason why J1 is low in Turkey TODAY only confirms what I am saying that it is because these were the turks who went out and colonized arabia and North Africa, hence they are no longer in turkey anymore but still present in neighbouring caucaus states at levels higher than anywhere else in the planet; it was these turks who formed the backbone of the elite in ottoman africa and arabia who spread across the arab and north african states! Not because North Africans are arabs, but because North Africans are TURKS and Arabs share the same Turk admixture! Arabs get all of their J and j1 and j2 from Turks.

Dna does not support your claim, it is widely agreed and accepted that the turks moved down into arabia and mixed with the indigenous black arabs who had already mixed with an eastern indo-iranian/arian branch.

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The results showed that the Arabian Peninsula has received
substantial gene flow from Africa (20%)
, detected by the presence of L, M1 and U6 lineages; that an 18% of the Arabian Peninsula lineages have a clear eastern provenancemainly represented by U lineages; but also by Indian M lineages and rare M links with Central Asia, Indonesia and even Australia. However, the bulk (62%) of the Arabian lineages has a Northern source.
-Last bold is the Nail in coffin. DNA proves 62% of arab lineage is from a northern source, north of arab states = Caucaus and Turkey/central asian turk states.

-How do you explain rare m lineages from central asia in arabs? How do you explain that 20% of their mtdna is black. O guess the ol slavery argument. But you can't run away from the fact that 62% of arabian lineages come from a northern source.... hmmm ..... now where is north of arabia? O yes turkey!


Your comparing modern people of West turkey to Ottoman turks of hundreds of years ago, its not a valid comparison because the main group of elite colonizers and military forces with harems in arabia and north africa LEFT turkey. It would be like if Welsh and Scots were all T haplogroup and English were all Z haplogroup. and the Welsh all left britain to colonize Canada, then america in that order, exclusively and no other migrations occured. Pointing hundreds of years later that Americans are really Canadians ethnically and not welsh that is why Americans share the Canadian haplogroup T. But T only occurs at 30% in Canada and at 99% in scotland wales border and only 10% of modern welsh are t because they mixed with non-t english. But there are few welsh left to compare to in wales who still have T because they all left or mixed out. No, Americans get their T haplogroup from the original welsh colonizers not from Canadians.




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Turkish was the official language, and Arabs and Berbers were excluded from government posts
Your own source. You claim algeria would be an arabic nation, where they are speaking turkish was the official language and arabs couldn't make it to government?

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A million of turk soldiers? YEAH RIGHT
http://historymedren.about.com/libra...xtalgeria9.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman...Janissary_Deys

Shellouchs= Shellouhs=Berbers LMAO at them being europeans.

Really, where do all of your shitty stories come from?
Lol, I have thoroughly disproved all your fantasies. Modern arabians are 62% turk on the mother side and split between various central asians and indians ~20% and black africans. further the peer reviewed studies show modern turko-arabs of arabia have a northern turko-central/west asian lineage on the mother side.

On the father side they are J, which originates in West Asia/ Turkey and J1 which occurs highest in East Turkey and the Caucauses reaching 99% proves in fact that J1 is a genuine marker of turkic peoples and not arabs who only show it at miscegenated levels.

Further Saudi Arabians themselves show unusually high amounts of the j2 markers and so much for the africans being from the slave trade as dna shows the african dna came east from iran

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Saudi Arabia differentiates from other Arabian Peninsula countries by a higher presence of J2-M172 lineages. It is significantly different from Yemen mainly due to a comparative reduction of sub-Saharan Africa E1-M123 and Levantine J1-M267 male lineages. Around 14% of the Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool is typical of African biogeographic ancestry, 17% arrived to the area from the East across Iranwhile the remainder 69% could be considered of direct or indirect Levantine ascription. Interestingly, basal E-M96* (n = 2) and J-M304* (n = 3) lineages have been detected, for the first time, in the Arabian Peninsula.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19772609
In otherwords, saudis are different than yemenis genetically yet they are both arabs. Saudis themselves have high j2, so no way can it be saudi arabs who colonized north africa with no j2 if they are the true ancestors.

Finally

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The area including eastern Turkey and the Zagros and Taurus mountains, has been identified as a likely area of ancient J-M267 diversity. Both J-P58 and other types of J-M267 are present, sometimes with similar frequencies.
J-M267 = J1
j1 originates from turkey

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J-P209 is divided into two main subclades (branches) J-M267 and J-M172.

Haplogroup J-M267

In human genetics, Y DNA haplogroup J-M267[Phylogenetics 1] is a subclade (branch) of Y-DNA haplogroup J-P209,[Phylogenetics 2] along with its sibling clade Y DNA haplogroup J-M172. Men from this lineage share a common paternal ancestor, which is demonstrated and defined by the presence of the SNP mutation referred to as M267, which was announced in (Cinnio─člu 2004). This haplogroup is found today in significant frequencies in many areas in order near the Middle East. For example it is among the most frequent haplogroups in Arabian Peninsula, and parts of the Caucasus...
(Cinnio─člu 2004)
Caucaus like Turkey and the neoigjbour turk states.

Dna proves your turks all of J is turk. Arab is not a race, just people who are mixed with black original arab speakers, then arian iranian invaders and indian invaders and lastly turks.

The main problems the arabs have is that J originates in Turkey and so does j1 and j2. And J1 the so called arab genes occurs highest in a turkic like people of the caucaus and not actual arabs. There is no such thing as an arab race. Its a myth, a subclade cannot be a unique race seperate from its parent and sister clade as little as 4,000 years ago because that is not enough time for the major mutuations of a different race, there are people of entirely different clades of the same race who look similar but genetically are distinct. ie E, A, B are all black clades. How can people of the same sub-clade be a different race (eliminating miscegenation which the turko-arabs deny they are) when they aren't even diverse enough to produce a seperate distinct clade?

Denial of turk ancestry all stems from the collapse of the ottoman empire and the shamin associated with being a turk done by western europeans of ottomans. They called the turks the "mad man of europe" and ridiculed them. And of course, the north africans cannot even prove that there j1 is not from the NEOLITHIC expansion of J1 into basically every continent.

You claim that algerians do have something to do with berbers because they have e1b1b. What is true is on their y chromosome they do have black ancestry which gives them E and these people are functionally slightly below mulatto. But you can't leave out all the other ancestry which is slight majority non-black and the fact that they look closer to, are culturally and linguistically closer to the turko-arabs. They want nothing to do with black people for the most part. Trying to claim them is as foolish as trying to claim all the other mix breeds of the planet who hate blacks.


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This haplogroup reaches a mean frequency of 42% in North Africa, decreasing in frequency from approximately 80% or more in some Moroccan Berber populations, including Saharawis, to approximately 10% to the east of this range in Egypt
wiki, with 3 sources, your favourite. So the majority of north africans (58%) do not even have m-81 so what sense does it make trying to claim they are berber? And having 1 berber and 11 turk ancestors doesn't make you berber. What is this 1 drop rule? Lots of the whites who came in the roman and greek period mixed a little and have great great going back 10 generation black grandfathers giving them a drop of e-m81. Doesn't make them berber at all.


Further we cannot be certain whether they inherit their E1b1b from the original native black hattic peoples of turkey who then passed it down to modern Turks who are actually 10% e1b1b themselves who passed it down to miscegnated north africans or if they actually have berber north african ancestors themselves. Of course now you, you will complain and say that modern turkey is only 10% e1b1b and north africa has it at a high %. That is irrelevent because turkey itself has had white and asiatic migrations into it after that period and killed off and massacred alot of its black populous and leaders and depending on which stat you source from has the largest black population in all of europe. In otherwords, Turkey could have had sent black turkish people into north africa who were originally from turkey, and north africans would still be turko-arabs with e1b1b /em81 yet still have no direct link to the berbers. I would need to see evidence that e1b1 in modern north africa doesn't come from black indigenous peoples of turkey who were there in antiquity and also have e1b1b and were part of the black expansion into the region.

What proof do you have that the red spot on turkey associated with the spread of black north africans and african agriculture who also carry e1b1b/ e-m81 into turkey 11 y.b.p. were not the ones responsible for its reintroduction during ottoman turk rule of north africa, in present day turko-arabs imposter north africans like you?


Your arguments are pitful at best you stated
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Arabs have mostly J1 , turks mostly J2.
To try to supplement your bogus claim that turks are not the originators of j1.
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Haplogroup J1 is a middle eastern haplogroup, which probably originated in eastern Anatolia, near Lake Van in central Kurdistan... East Anatolia around Lake Van sees over 30% of J1.
eupedia j1

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J1_Y-DNA.shtml

In otherword, your own sources PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that j1, the so called marker you been claiming was arab originates in Eastern Turkey.
Lake van is the largest lake in turkey and home of the so called arab marker j1.



This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the arab dna marker as j1 is a myth and propaganda to hide the true turk dna of the multiethnic multiracial turko-arabs from persia to north africa because it doesn't originate in arabia but amongst the peoples in turkey like all of J1.

J1-C3D a subclade of j1, occurs highest in black africans from the sudan at 75% and occurs at less than that in all other nations. j1 originates from turkey. How do black people end up with a majority non-black gene but the originators of that gene are white and have it in lower numbers? The answer is obvious, the original j1 holders were black people and the modern people with 30-50% j1 and j2 who are non-black turko-arabs have low j1 through racial admixture. As for why would non black caucaus peoples have such high j. We do not know if they tested white or black caucasians people of today and many of them like the georgian royal family make it clear their ancestors come from that region of africa like the sudan. If they are mixed with non-black on the female side it won't affect their j1 proportions.





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